Denise Chaffin: Hi. I'm Denise Chaffin, and I'm your podcast host for Talking TA.
Denise Chaffin: And we are at Transform twenty twenty five.
Denise Chaffin: And I have with me Scott Parrish, who is the CEO and founder of a company called Hire Guide.
Denise Chaffin: Welcome, Scott.
Scott Parish: Thank you very much.
Denise Chaffin: Yes.
Denise Chaffin: Nice to have you here.
Scott Parish: Nice to be here.
Denise Chaffin: Yes.
Denise Chaffin: Definitely.
Denise Chaffin: So, yeah, give me a little bit of background on your company and your back and who you are.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: Okay.
Scott Parish: So our our company, Hire Guide, is really focused on helping create great interviews.
Scott Parish: So there's a billion interviews happening in western markets every year, and it will take you probably two seconds to put someone on this couch, talk about interviews, and they will tell you candidates don't like them.
Scott Parish: They're slow.
Scott Parish: They're poorly predictive of performance.
Scott Parish: This is where bias comes into the process.
Scott Parish: TA is very frustrated with hiring managers.
Scott Parish: It's just rife for innovation.
Scott Parish: And so we've written we're really excited to be building the capabilities to really do interview excellence.
Denise Chaffin: Awesome.
Denise Chaffin: I love that.
Denise Chaffin: It's a ripe time for innovation.
Denise Chaffin: And then you mentioned too that you had done work for LinkedIn.
Scott Parish: Yes.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: So before founding Hire Guide well, Hire Guide actually has ten LinkedIn alumni in the company, so we got the band back together.
Scott Parish: But we, we we turns out we like each other and want to keep working together.
Scott Parish: But before that, yes, spent spent many years at LinkedIn building and launching new hiring products, everything from applicant tracking system to insights.
Scott Parish: So it's it's it's been a it's been a very exciting time, but the things you can do now with with AI are really, really amazing.
Denise Chaffin: What have you experienced or learned, or what takeaway do you have from this conference so far that you were not expecting when you got here?
Scott Parish: That's a great question.
Scott Parish: I was I I'm hearing a lot more openness to the partnership between AI and people in the way that he that that HR and talent acquisition processes go.
Scott Parish: So we've been working in this space for a little while.
Scott Parish: And even if you go back a couple of years, there was a sort of big feeling that AI was a little bit ick in the whole hiring process.
Scott Parish: And there were compliance concerns, and there were all sorts of really fair questions, but essentially resistance to to the idea.
Scott Parish: And I really feel like that tone has changed this year.
Scott Parish: People are very interested and excited about how AI and people together can actually create better experiences for candidates and more human connection and more so that's been actually nice to see.
Scott Parish: I mean, I knew it would happen at some point, but it's nice to see it happening quickly.
Denise Chaffin: Oh, good.
Denise Chaffin: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: And like I mentioned to Arianna a whole ago, last year, we did not have the conversation about AgenTek AI.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: And now this year, we are.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: So what are we gonna be talking about next year?
Scott Parish: So I think next year, the step that AI will take will it the analytical capabilities Wow.
Scott Parish: Will become a lot more advanced.
Scott Parish: So Okay.
Scott Parish: You're exactly right.
Scott Parish: It was sort of copilots, and there was a lot of data data structure that became important previously.
Scott Parish: This year, agents' major contribution is that they can now take action.
Scott Parish: So AI cannot just advise you on on great data, but also now start to actually do things for you and automate processes.
Scott Parish: Once you have those processes and all of that data well organized, there's amazing patterns and insights and things inside that that really smart correlational analysis and the but AI itself is gonna be able to pick out those patterns next year and really make some smart recommendations to go back and tune all sorts of resources.
Denise Chaffin: Oh my gosh.
Denise Chaffin: Well, it's great to have, like, a
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: You know, someone's vision into the future.
Scott Parish: That's it.
Scott Parish: Next year, all it's all gonna be about hardcore AI analytics.
Denise Chaffin: Okay.
Denise Chaffin: Alright.
Denise Chaffin: I'm gonna remember you said that.
Scott Parish: Please please do.
Scott Parish: Who wrote me on that for next year?
Denise Chaffin: Well, plus with your experience, you know, especially with the company that you're running now and your experience from before.
Denise Chaffin: I mean, it makes sense.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: My cofounder is also a PhD in AI and machine learning.
Scott Parish: Good.
Scott Parish: So we think about this stuff a lot.
Denise Chaffin: So let's talk about AgenTek AI for a minute.
Denise Chaffin: Because last year, again, it was generative.
Denise Chaffin: We've leaped ahead.
Denise Chaffin: So tell me what you think is workable.
Denise Chaffin: How can they integrate, I guess, Agenstic AI into the processes.
Denise Chaffin: Right?
Scott Parish: So one of the ways to think about Agenstic AI is a bit like people.
Scott Parish: There are generalists.
Scott Parish: They're good at most things, and then there are specialists, people that are just excellent at one particular thing.
Scott Parish: So the LLMs that came out, ChatGPT and those sorts of things, those are great generalist models.
Denise Chaffin: Okay.
Scott Parish: So HR can very quickly go and you can say into ChatGPT, write a job description for us, or create a conversation map for coaching conversation, or any of these very various things, and you'll you'll come back with with a response.
Scott Parish: Where agents get really interesting is that they can be trained in a much more specific way.
Scott Parish: So instead of sort of answering questions just generally based on the common knowledge of the LLMs, you can actually say, well, we really believe in this particular coaching methodology.
Scott Parish: And by the way, here's also some very unique data that a general LLM won't have about that sort of thing.
Scott Parish: And so these agents can be much more specialized and therefore more effective.
Scott Parish: So for for example, we we have agents that help write great interview guides and content, and we've been able to train them in particular ways that make them significantly better than the kinds of things that you would get if you're using a generalist LLM.
Scott Parish: So I think one thing to think about it is, like, agents are more specialized.
Scott Parish: They have access to unique data.
Scott Parish: You can control them a little bit more in terms of how you want them to be answering questions and the methods that they use.
Scott Parish: So that's that's gonna be exciting, I think, for for for TAA to to to see some of those those processes.
Denise Chaffin: With with the with these, I guess, decisions, though, and that's the other piece of it.
Denise Chaffin: So with the agents, they're able to do a lot more, like you said, they're specialists.
Denise Chaffin: But then they're also known to kinda make some forward thinking decisions.
Denise Chaffin: Right?
Denise Chaffin: How is that gonna be controlled?
Scott Parish: That and and that's a really important topic because right now, it is straight up illegal for AI to make decisions in the context of of hiring.
Denise Chaffin: Okay.
Scott Parish: So unless there's a number of laws coming in in the EU, but I've also been adopted in some, I heard about that.
Scott Parish: States in in the New York Accord, for example, that say that if that hiring is a high risk use case and if AI is going to be used to make decisions, you have to also show that they they do not have adverse impact on on on other groups.
Scott Parish: And that's difficult to audit LLM that way to do to do that.
Scott Parish: So we also just don't think that the best organizations in the world want AI to make decisions about it.
Scott Parish: It's much more a human decision that can be improved with a partnership with AI and helping collect that kind of data.
Scott Parish: So I think there there there is gonna have to be guardrails around the way that agents are working and moving ahead and how they make various decisions.
Scott Parish: But some of the patterns that we're we're seeing is checking in with a a leader.
Scott Parish: They also get jammed sometimes.
Scott Parish: They they're trying to do something, and it doesn't quite work out the way you'd think it was.
Scott Parish: So you have to alert back a human to sort of come and un unblock them a little bit to kinda keep keep going down.
Scott Parish: Really?
Scott Parish: So I I I think it will be a a partnership like that where the agents will be checking in with somebody.
Scott Parish: But instead of being able to, it will make them ten times more effective because you'll have ten agents running in.
Scott Parish: A human can be unblocking or approving various things, but getting a lot more a lot more leverage.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: If we're gonna have humans then that are kinda, like, checking
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: The
Denise Chaffin: system, what kind what kind of a a position will that create then to the humans?
Denise Chaffin: And and how many of those people will we need Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: To kinda monitor these systems and to monitor inefficiencies or see areas for improvements, that type of thing?
Scott Parish: I think, I think there's gonna be a lot of good good roles.
Scott Parish: So I think about chess.
Scott Parish: My son and I have a a little boy who's just got into into chess.
Scott Parish: And so the best best chess players in the world, AI can can beat them, but a the best chess players in the world with AI can beat the AI.
Scott Parish: And so in almost all cases, we find that human plus AI is the most effective combination versus human or AI That's true.
Scott Parish: Way.
Scott Parish: And so comp I mean, talent matters so much.
Scott Parish: I mean, that is the number one driver of business success.
Scott Parish: The quality of the hire that you p the the people that you have, those processes that you're running.
Scott Parish: So as as leaders of business, they're gonna say, I want the absolute best outcomes for this.
Scott Parish: And the best outcomes are gonna come from people plus AI.
Scott Parish: And so there will be processes that are running in parallel with these these two different systems, but I don't I I don't think we're going into a world for some processes, maybe the AI will really start to just take over on its own, but I think in many cases, it's gonna be a partner
Denise Chaffin: share.
Denise Chaffin: Oh, let's hope so.
Denise Chaffin: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: I like that.
Denise Chaffin: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: That's forward thinking that's also very positive.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: Especially right now, we're living in a in a time where there's a lot of uncertainty.
Denise Chaffin: Yes.
Denise Chaffin: Yes.
Denise Chaffin: And so there's a lot of fear that's just kind of naturally, organically coming from all this uncertainty.
Denise Chaffin: So hearing positive things like that, AI plus humans is the best solution.
Denise Chaffin: Oh, yeah.
Denise Chaffin: That's that's actually very positive.
Denise Chaffin: Yeah.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: Exactly.
Scott Parish: I know.
Scott Parish: I mean, recruiters are very sophisticated in terms of understanding of how to work with candidates, where to find candidates.
Scott Parish: AI is not gonna replace it, but they're gonna just be made be made more more effective, ultimately.
Denise Chaffin: And I've been a recruiter for a really long time, and I used to tell people all the time, I feel like especially when we first started using LinkedIn, I go, oh my gosh.
Denise Chaffin: I feel like a private eye now.
Denise Chaffin: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: Because I can go and find anybody just by do typing in the right stuff.
Denise Chaffin: And I always kinda felt like a private eye anyway digging into companies to find the right people.
Denise Chaffin: And I said, but my job was really was akin to that type of to a private eye.
Denise Chaffin: Or you're like, well, you really have to, like, map out where you're gonna find the right kind of person for a position that the company says has been open for a year and they just can't find the right candidate.
Denise Chaffin: Right?
Denise Chaffin: So you're like, okay.
Denise Chaffin: Well, how do you expect me to go find that candidate if you haven't found it in a year?
Denise Chaffin: Right.
Scott Parish: Right?
Scott Parish: Right.
Denise Chaffin: So you have to change dynamics.
Denise Chaffin: You have to change you have to change mindsets.
Scott Parish: Yes.
Denise Chaffin: So you start there, and then you go find the candidates.
Denise Chaffin: Right?
Scott Parish: And then, I mean, when LinkedIn came out, people thought, oh, this is gonna replace recruiters.
Scott Parish: There's not gonna be a need for search and staffing companies.
Scott Parish: People can just go direct to all this kind of thing.
Scott Parish: And then, of course, we've seen that that's not what happened.
Scott Parish: And LinkedIn just made recruiters more effective and, sort of evolved the role, but, definitely, I think AI is gonna be gonna be some gonna be something something
Denise Chaffin: That sounds very cool.
Denise Chaffin: I like that.
Denise Chaffin: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: You need to be shouting that
Scott Parish: for the rooftop.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: Definitely these days.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: A bit of a
Denise Chaffin: little bit of So one of my questions for my other guests was around the candidate experience.
Denise Chaffin: And because we hear a lot about it, candidates feel ghosted.
Denise Chaffin: They feel like they're not the companies that they apply for or or or apply to are not responding to them, and they just feel and plus there's, like, right now, a huge amount of people looking for work.
Denise Chaffin: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: So they get frustrated and they get just I don't know.
Denise Chaffin: It's it's dismal Yeah.
Scott Parish: To say the least.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: But there are people who are get who are hired.
Denise Chaffin: But one of the things that's come up is how are we going to change our own processes, hiring processes, where we're not just communicating with people we hire effectively, but we also need to be equally reaching out and communicating people we don't hire.
Denise Chaffin: Right.
Denise Chaffin: What are your thoughts, Tom?
Scott Parish: Absolutely love that.
Scott Parish: So the motto of our company is hire kind, is it sort of hashtag hire kind.
Scott Parish: And that's really and we're a benefit corporation, so we also exist for social purpose around interviewing and hiring, which is very much it is time to give candidates the respect that they deserve, right, which includes a voice, which includes feedback.
Scott Parish: As you rightly pointed out, in an interview process, you you have, let's say, ten ten people.
Scott Parish: One of them gets the job.
Scott Parish: Nine of them don't.
Scott Parish: And so, actually, most of the data most of the experience is the people who you're not not hire who you're not hiring.
Scott Parish: And I think there's a there's gonna be there's a really important role for for AI to to play here for those for those candidates.
Scott Parish: It's not gonna solve all of the problems, but it can solve a few.
Scott Parish: So one of them is feedback.
Scott Parish: That's one of the number one things that candidates really say wanna say I I've interviewed.
Scott Parish: I come here.
Scott Parish: I understand that you made a decision to go either way, but how how can I improve?
Scott Parish: Can you give me some actionable feedback on how now in reality, organizations, they have to track down a hiring manager who probably has some chicken scratch notes somewhere.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: Then they have to stitch that together.
Scott Parish: They have to make sure it's EEOC compliant and doesn't root the risk, and it's just too much.
Scott Parish: And so they don't so they don't do it.
Scott Parish: In the in the very near future and in the now, in in some in some of our clients' cases, is when you start recording and transcribing interviews or bringing it all onto a platform, you've already captured that data.
Scott Parish: And you can go and ask an an AI system to create EEOC compliant feedback by looking over five different interview rounds with a candidate.
Scott Parish: Love that.
Scott Parish: Write it into an actionable email for them.
Scott Parish: Why?
Scott Parish: And just within a button, now be able to because the one of the best things about structured interviewing is that you've you've already gathered the data to have a defensible methodology towards how you're choosing and why you're choosing.
Scott Parish: Whereas if you're choosing with gut and random hiring managers, there's hard to it's hard to defend that.
Scott Parish: So that's, I think, one thing that's gonna be really helpful.
Scott Parish: I think soon, that's even gonna go one step further.
Scott Parish: So when we transcribe interviews today, the companies have the benefit of that so they can query those transcripts.
Scott Parish: But we'd like to give that opportunity to candidates too.
Scott Parish: So on your real interview performance, you won't be able to get the whole transcript that's belongs to the company and has some sensitive information in it.
Scott Parish: They won't give that.
Scott Parish: Correct.
Scott Parish: So you could imagine asking an AI based on the transcript that you can't see and on my data and then my responses.
Scott Parish: Can you read those responses and tell me how I could have done better and actually get some really cool, really actionable feedback, which will hopefully make it better.
Denise Chaffin: Well and we all need that head of feedback.
Denise Chaffin: Whether it's in our current jobs or whether it's in interviews we're doing, we all crave that feedback.
Denise Chaffin: Absolutely.
Scott Parish: And and then the other side of it too is coaching for yourself as an interviewer.
Scott Parish: Right.
Scott Parish: So everyone can you can try and do this now, but if you if you transcribe one of your interviews, which you can do on an individual basis, and you put that in something like a chat g b t, and you say, research a sophisticated model on how to cope how to interview well and then coach me, look at my performance, and then coach me on that.
Scott Parish: You can get some really actionable insights.
Scott Parish: So we automate that so that people get an email afterwards right away.
Scott Parish: Hiring managers get an email afterwards that tell them how how to do those sense of things, and it's based on multiple interviews.
Scott Parish: But almost anyone can start to experience some of these benefits of coaching and and support, which is just great.
Scott Parish: I mean, I I had never I run an interview company, and I had never been coached on my interviewing until until
Denise Chaffin: this.
Denise Chaffin: Either.
Scott Parish: And I've learned some great things.
Scott Parish: Like, I've I talk too much.
Denise Chaffin: Well, I took did one through management recruiters years ago.
Denise Chaffin: Gosh.
Denise Chaffin: Probably fifteen years ago maybe.
Denise Chaffin: The and then there was a a really cool training that they gave us, and then I had some other training later on with another client.
Denise Chaffin: But that was the only little training we had.
Denise Chaffin: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: And then later on, you go back and you say, gee, I don't know.
Denise Chaffin: Are you still doubting yourself?
Denise Chaffin: You Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: So that kind of training would be awesome.
Denise Chaffin: Plus, we can now, with video conferencing, record and transcribe all of our interviews.
Denise Chaffin: You don't have to have a special note taking software, Nanny.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: Absolutely.
Scott Parish: And I think we see a lot of organizations that get started with those types of systems realize the huge benefits of that and then wanna and then wanna scale things, which if you want all the data mapped into your ATS and you wanna be able to do more advanced analytics, then you can start to get some some specialized solutions.
Scott Parish: But, yeah, it's a it's an exciting time.
Scott Parish: And when it's gonna make a big difference on actually being able to do I meant I said next year predictive analytics is gonna be the thing the big new thing from AI.
Scott Parish: And when that happens, it's going to be able to start to predict from some of the interview data when you combine that with output and performance data, actually how to tune an interview process to the outcomes, which has been the thing that everyone's been talking about for thirty years, but that has been too hard to execute in the wild.
Scott Parish: Sure.
Scott Parish: It's it's coming in the next twelve to twenty four months.
Denise Chaffin: Okay.
Denise Chaffin: I'm gonna let me say this.
Denise Chaffin: You called it.
Denise Chaffin: If you if I can find this.
Denise Chaffin: Right, Scott.
Denise Chaffin: Alright.
Scott Parish: And that Twenty twenty seven, the future Scott.
Scott Parish: Did you get it right?
Denise Chaffin: Another topic that's come up a lot over the last, so gosh, year or so has been the return to office mandate.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: First of all, I think there's some great data from Carta.
Scott Parish: They have some really great data on this.
Scott Parish: Essentially, the takeaways from my understanding from sort of looking at this is that hybrid models are the sort of dominant model that set that organizations are moving towards.
Scott Parish: Yes.
Scott Parish: I heard.
Scott Parish: And that the sweet spot is a sort of three day two or three three days in the office.
Scott Parish: You don't wanna go one four, and you don't wanna go four one on the other ways for for a number of different reasons.
Scott Parish: And so I think that's gonna pose a challenge for certain organizations and people who have now recruited out of a continent instead of a a region.
Scott Parish: But I think it's also gonna bring people back together.
Scott Parish: And there's something I really do believe in the human collaboration and experience and experience
Denise Chaffin: with them.
Denise Chaffin: I do too, but there are certain things that you can do remotely that actually where you could focus better.
Denise Chaffin: You don't have interruptions.
Denise Chaffin: You don't have Oh, yeah.
Denise Chaffin: The touch to worry about the the commute in and out of the office, that type of thing.
Denise Chaffin: So there are times that that collaboration's important, especially if you're a manager and you've got a new employee starting and you wanna be able to imprint, as someone said earlier, the culture of the company onto a new employee who maybe just graduated.
Denise Chaffin: You want them to to learn about your business, to learn about the other people in the organization.
Denise Chaffin: You have to have that in office collaboration at some point.
Denise Chaffin: But you can still, I think, make adjustments and and maybe even not have such you such a, rigid schedule.
Denise Chaffin: Right?
Denise Chaffin: Make it flexible for people depending on each person has a different case situation.
Scott Parish: What's really worked for our company, we're fully remote where we do on sites.
Scott Parish: So and sit we all come together, spend time together, have experiences together, work on the really hard sort of strategic planning, those types of things while we're in the room together that we can really benefit from that.
Scott Parish: And then when we all go back into, like, heads down execution mode, we're sort of back in our remote location.
Scott Parish: So that's something that's worked.
Denise Chaffin: It's almost like when you're in school, and I'm gonna make this comparison.
Denise Chaffin: You went to school to learn, but then you went home to do your homework.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: Right?
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: You couldn't have done your homework at school because there was too much distraction.
Denise Chaffin: You couldn't focus.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Denise Chaffin: So they sent you home with homework.
Scott Parish: Right.
Denise Chaffin: So aren't we kind of carrying that forward a little bit?
Scott Parish: Yes.
Scott Parish: Exactly.
Scott Parish: Yeah.
Scott Parish: That's exactly.
Scott Parish: It's super interesting.
Denise Chaffin: Thank you so
Scott Parish: much.
Scott Parish: Thanks for having me and and chatting.
Scott Parish: Appreciate it.
Denise Chaffin: Alright.
Denise Chaffin: Thanks.
Denise Chaffin: I'll just stay in touch.
Scott Parish: Yes.